Data: 2010-12-30 11:00:12 | |
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O asertywnoci kiedy linie sa zaklocane | |
O asertywnosci - mamy pewien klopot z iloscia slow, ktore wcialo w ten kawalek dyskusji Niejako pewne zaprzeczenia w sobie jakoze ze agressywne stwierdzenie pozycji moze byc zwiezlejsze. Ktos wpisal w watek na dyskusyjnym forum NYT tyle ile sie da czy pasuje czy nie; ale tez kiedy pasuje rozmyc temat i pozniej gloryfikowac punkt o taksowaniu ludzi, jak gdyby taki rodzaj manipulacji byl dobry. Zdefiniowanie co robi werbalna agresja a co daje asertywne postawienie sie ( ustalenie wlasnej pozycji i pozycji opponenta w dyskusji) zapewne nie uszkadza dyskusji merytorycznej. Ponizej jest jej mniej. Wiecej jest generalizowania. Jak chcemy, aby nasz punt 'zapalil innych do niego" nie potrzebujemy rozmydlania ( diffusers) czy dyfuzji punktow w merytorycznej dyskusji. Werbalna aggresja pozostanie slaboscia, jesli sluchacze nie maja problemu ze skupianiem uwagi pozytywna komunikacja. ( Prezydent jednak 'uniosl' sie z innego powodu) Skadinad tez wiemy z wiedzy ludowej co 'szczekanie' znaczy. A tez mamy powiedzenie o krowach w tym samym kontekscie ( nie ta krowa, ktora 'ryczy' liczy sie merytorycznie) NYT ;Readers' Comments What Progressives Don’t Understand About ObamaBack to Article » By ISHMAEL REED It’s risky for a black man to express anger — even a president. Comments are no longer being accepted. 364 Readers' Boulder, CO December 12th, 2010 8:27 amLet me see if I get your point: blacks and Latinos are vulnerable enough to know when to be grateful and keep their mouths shut (a compliment, apparently), and white liberals are too entitled and whiny to know what's good for them. APPARENTLY, THIS PERSON BELIEVES IN POWER OF PREJUDOICE AND VERBAL AGGRESSION At least you don't leave anyone out with your absurd generalizations. SPLIT JUDGEMENT - CAN HE SEE THESE IN MISRROR ? Recommend Recommended by 37 Readers 202.David Castro Philadelphia December 12th, 2010 8:27 am A beautiful piece. You nailed it. Obama is actually thinking about the welfare of people and their need for progress, albeit imperfect. He would rather gain some ground than prove some abstract ideology. He is thinking about what it will take to win in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida and he knows what kind of price average people will pay if a Republican gets back in the White House. POLITICAL PIECE NOT HAVING TO DO WITH A QUESTION OF THE THREAT IF THIS IS RISKY TO EXPRESS ANGER. ( I PRESET - "YET, IF IT IS TO DIFFUSE LACK OF DISCUSSION POINT") Recommend Recommended by 6 Readers 203.eva c california December 12th, 2010 8:27 amI generally admire Mr. Reed's work, but it's obvious that Mr. Obama has no difficulty in 'manning up'.... against the very Democrats (aka 'progressives') who campaigned for him. So this biracial former supporter of Obama would respectfully suggest that Mr. Reed is, unwittingly or not, merely playing a game here. And not a partucularly honest game. Recommend Recommended by 26 Readers 204.HIGHLIGHT (what's this?) BlinkyMcChuck New York December 12th, 2010 8:27 amHe doesn't mind losing his temper with progressives. Recommend Recommended by 279 Readers 205.martin Portland, Oregon December 12th, 2010 8:29 amI think your are off the mark. Obama is not some office worker who has to bite his tongue. He is president of the United States. You can't have arguably the most powerful man in the world have emotional blocks when it comes to anger and assertiveness. THESE ARE NOT ONLY DIFFERENT BUT OPPOSING, IN PART. The stakes are too high. (...) There are many ways to get angry. I have witnessed the Dalai Lama chastise vendors who were reaping huge profits off a ten day teaching he gave. He is certainly the embodiment of non violence, but I can assure he made his point. Martin Luther King was a devotee of non violence, yet he was non compromising on his principles and quite assertive and aggressive as a leader. One can inspire without being aggressive. I don't think Malcolm X committed an act of violence in that incarnation in his life, yet he commanded respect and even fear from all sides of the political spectrum because he was a man of fierce principles who also had the capacity change when it was necessary and reality demanded it. Republicans already have depicted him as Hitler. Newt Gingrich said that he was a Kenyan anti colonialist, whatever that even means, since his Kenyan father abandoned him as a boy. They have tried to say that he was not an American, was a Muslim and a friend of terrorists and Muslim sypathizer and worse. They don't accept his invitations to meet. This is while he was acting passive, conciliatory, and pleading for bi partisanship. Where did his being non threatening get him? .............. THE TEXT BELOW RUNS IN THE SAME REPLY. IT APPERS THAT PASTING THE OPPOSITE THOUGHTS DOES NOT BOTHER EITHER TOOD OR CHIP POR CHIPPED TOOD; FOR THE LIMITED AUDIENCE HERE - PEOPLE DO IT IN MORE ADVANCED DISPUTES AND EXPRESS THEMSELVES THE WAY THAT PIECES TO NOT CRIP UP OF COMMUNICATION AS NON-CONNECTED OR OPPOSING EACH OTHER. (i KNMOWM OF MANIPULATORS WHO BELIEVE TAHT THEY WILL OVERRUN THE OPPONENT NO MATTER WHAT - AND IN THIS CASE WOULD PUT THE OPPOSITE IN THE SAME DELIVERY IN ORDER TO RISE VOICE AT THE END CLAIMNG THAT OTHER PARTY DID NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY SAID AND MORE OVER MISSED THAT PARTY SAID NOT TO MIXT AGGRESSION WITH ASSERTIVENES WHILE THEY ARE GUITY OF THE SAME - THESE ARE OFFENDERS IN THE DISPUTE, THAT BELIEVE NOT IN ECXPLAING THE MERITUM AT ALL, TYPICAL OF PEOPLE SENDING THE INSULT AD PERSONAM WHEN NO REAL MERITORICAL POINT IN THEIR COURT, STILL HOPING TO GET TRHROUGH BY COMMUNICATION NOISE MAKING ONLY) ( HACKER DISTORTS SOME OF MY WORDS) "You seem to be confusing anger with assertiveness. There is way too much "black and white" thinking going on here. If Obama gets mad,does that mean that he will start acting like a gang banger? Will he start speaking in Ebonics at a news conference. Will he threaten to hit Representative Boehner "upside his head?" IT IS HARD TO SEE THIS RESPONDER AS ONE PERSON; MOREOVER WE DO NOT KNOW IF IT IS ONE PERSON; OR IF ONE PERSON STEALS OTHER TEXTS. All progressives are asking Obama to do is be assertive. All they are asking him to do is not cave to Republicans on key issues, to fight for the principles he campaigned on, even if he lost some battles, because he would have educated the public in the process about the Republican shell game. This is where he has failed miserably at. What progressives want is for Obama to be the leader they elected him to be. Republicans want to destroy the middle class, hold the poor in contempt, want to turn America into an oligarchy, and are a party of nihilists, who have won the ideological war with Obama because of his passiveness and refusal to show some spine. WE SAW ABOVE THAT PEOPLE ARE AGAINT THE GENERAL;ISATION AND DO NOT CONSIDER TEHSE ASSERTIVE. REPUBLICANS AS A GROUP DO NOYT POST SUCH AGENDAS BUT THE RESPONDER DOES AS A PREJUDICE AGAINT THEM. You don't engage such a single pointed and nihilistic adversary with passiveness. Neville Chamberlain found that out by being conciliatory with Hitler. I think the criticisms of Obama transcend race. They go to his character as a peron and as a human being, and his qualities, or lack thereof,as a leader. I am sure that Bill Clinton was viewed as white trash by many Republicans, given his actual background. His mother was a battered women at the hands of his alcoholic father, she had drinking problems, his brother was a drug addict. However, one thing Republicans knew about Bill Clinton was that he was tough. As brilliant as he was, he could get down and dirty when he had to. I think they respected him all the time they detested him. One time in response to Republic criticisms he said simply; "that dog won't hunt." It was a simple, down to earth response that a working poor guy from Arkansas would have, He was not rude, crude, or undignified. Yet that remark resonated with me and I think millions of Americans as something a tough ordinary Joe would say. Obama seems not to have this capacity. AGAIN, HOW BEING INDIVIDUAL IN THE STYLE OF EXPRESSION HURST ONE? I THINK IT DOES NOT. It hurts him and the country. Why do you assume that progressives don't know about the unemployed and Obama does? Now it is you who is stereotyping. Obama for all extent and purposes was raised by his white mother and grandparents. How much of an actual life experience of ordinary black people does he actually have, not observed, but actually lived? You are trying to make Obama out to be Jackie Robinson, who had to control his temper in an apartheid country for that experiment to work. That was over 60 years ago. I think the country is ready and would actually welcome an "angry black man" or more pointed a PERSON, black or white, man or woman, with appropriate righteous anger with which to confront Republicans and and rally and lead the country. PERSON AGAIN BELIEVES THAT AGGRESSIVE IS ASSERTIVE, WHILE OPPOSITE WAS STATED BY HIM TOO. IT IS NOT THE SAME AND THAT IS HOW WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS FOR THESE STYLES OF COMMUNICATION. PERHAPS, PERSON WANTS TO SAY THAT TAKING ON SOME AFFRESSIVE AGGRESSIVE TONE WOULD HELP THE CONFRONTING ON THE MERITORIAL ISSUES THAT THE TWO SIDES ARGUE. PERHAPS. BEING ASSERTIVE, SPEAKING SOMEWHAT SCHEMATIC, STRATS WITH STATING THE POSITION OF THE OTHER [PERSON": I SEE HOW THE MATTER OF TAXE CUTS OPR OTHER MATTER GETS YOU ...INTRESTED, OVERHELMED, ANGRIES.... IN THAT ........ ( NEED STO RE-STATE THAT), AND THAN ASK : AM I SUMMARISING/ OR PICKING UP YOUR POINT CORRECT, ELICITING ANSTWER AND BY TAHT ALSO DEFINING THE LINES ( COTOURS) OF THE ARFGUMENT. IN CASE THAT IS YES, THAT PERSION CAN NOW SAY ; LET ME NOW TELL WHAT I SEE THAT IS LIKE YOUR OPINON ANDS WHEN I DIFFER. ( ALL TAHGT IS NOT AGGRESSIVE ). AFTER THAT PARTIES TAKE ON REMAINING DEFERENCES. IT IS ALSO VERY AMERICAB TO STATE ON THE REST; SO WE ARRIVE AT THE POINTB THAT WE AGREE TO DISAGREE ABOUT ..... ( USUALLY A SMALLEST POIECE OF THE BOGGER DISPUTE ) AND THAN CLOISE IT. APPRENTLY , IT OIS MANYT TIME NO USE TO GO TO ISSUES THAT HAVE TOI WINDOW OUT. OR THEY BOTH CAN AGREE TO GET MORE INFORMATION AND RETURN TO FINISH THAE PART THEY DISAGREE AND WHY. Recommend Recommended by 23 Readers 206.QuickBen oakland, california December 12th, 2010 8:29 amPretty much spot on. Recommend Recommended by 5 Readers 207.Krugmanisaracist NY December 12th, 2010 8:29 amIf this is true, and a black president can't show a simple emotion like anger out of fear of being labeled, then maybe the Democrats should have picked Hillary...or would the same hold true for a woman? If so, I guess its back to White guys. Recommend Recommended by 24 Readers 208.dont NOT REALLY CONNECTED FRAGMENTS, AGAIN. Recommend Recommended by 7 Readers 211.Paul Adams Stony Brook December 12th, 2010 8:29 amAccording to the NY Times analysis the "deal" will actually increase taxes on the poor, and vastly decrease them on the rich. I fail to see why this is "cool", even if it did not greatly increase the deficit (as it does). Recommend Recommended by 26 Readers 212.kate s Buffalo, N.Y. December 12th, 2010 8:29 amFinally someone is speaking out about this 'issue'. I am truly dismayed at those who keep insisting that Obama act like a 'wild man' and mirror those who are acting like lunatics. I, for one, DO think he is the 'coolest' in the room and hope he stays that way. Two wrongs do NOT make a right, might does NOT make right, creating confrontation does NOT solve problems, knee-jerk reactions only escalate problems. I LIKE my President to be a notch above the fray.... And I agree, nothing would be worse than an angry Obama that the 'right wing' can stereotype AGAIN. I don't care what 'they' say, race is indeed STILL an issue in this country. P.S. I am a white progressive who congratulates Obama for NOT creating a civil war. And I keep telling my colleagues - WATCH THIS PAGE....the Republicans are showing their true colors more and more and they 'aren't PREATTY GOOD ARGUING. Recommend Recommended by 7 Readers 213.John Port of Spain December 12th, 2010 8:29 amExactly! People tell Obama to get angry, and then when he chastises the Progressives for expecting too much, they swoon in dismay, "Ooooh he got angry!" Recommend Recommended by 4 Readers 214.bob nyc WELL, PRESIDENT IS A GROWN MEN - HE CAN REFUSE SUCH ADVISE. December 12th, 2010 8:29 amWhoa! Mr. Reed you have used a few isolated personal experiences and interactions and then extrapolated an entire philosophy to suggest that progressives are just petulant at "not getting everything they want" because they take issue with an America in which 23% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the population. Progressives believe in an America that works for everyone - and guess what - that includes black people. If it is impossible for our president, who happens to be black, to stand up for the American people then what are you suggesting? That America is not really ready for a black president? THIS SEEMS TO REACH TO OTHER TOPIC; IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO BRING IT TO THE TOPIC IF IT IS O'K TO GET ANGRY. IN USA WE DO NOT HAVE SUCH PROBLEM AS READY NOT READY FOR THE PRESIDENT WHO IS ALREDAY THERE. TRY TO STAY ON. Recommend Recommended by 17 Readers 215.MT New York, NY December 12th, 2010 8:29 amSo calling your opponents hostage takers isn't shouting? Or demonizing the most productive job generators in your society solely as the wealthy (too often to recount)? Even though only 2% of the Forbes 400 got their wealth through inheritance - ie. they earned it. And the people whose taxes most substantially subsidize the social programs you so value? You must be kidding... FRAGMENTED AGAIN - WE DO NOT KNOW WHICH RESPONDENT MADE THIS REMARK. Recommend Recommended by 6 Readers 216.JH Hawkins Bed-Stuy Brooklyn, New York December 12th, 2010 8:29 amAs a "negro" intellectual, consultant and workshop leader, I have experienced a kind of prodding from my fellow intellectuals to become more verbally angry often when I was actually leading workshops about something other that traditional "black issues". My son calls it the "mad black woman" syndrome as though my white counterparts don't quite know what to do with a black woman who isn't screaming and cursing about "the man" or "the system". I take my lead from Brother President Obama - definitely the coolest man in the room, to be intellectual, rational and ultimately quotable. INTERESTING THAT THIS SPEAKER CAN DO IT; WHITE APPRENTLY WE DISAGREE WITH THE ISSUE OF GENERALISING AND WHIULE I SEE TOO TAHT PTESIDENTY OBAMA IS QUITE SOCIALLY ASSERTIVE OVERALL. THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS HE IS RIGHT. IT MEANTS THAT WHEN HE HAS TO FACE CONFRONTATION OR SOCIAL INSULTS HE STANDS HIS POINT QUITE WELL ( EVENIF NOT RIUGHT); HE DEFINITELLY DOES NOT WORRY ABOUT SMALL INTIMIDATION - IGNORS THEM ALL TOGETHER ( in his campain tehse were qite cruell) . THIS IS NOT THE ONLY TECHNIQUE BUT IS ONE OF THEM. i HAVE ALSO NOTICED THAT WHEN PTESIDENT INITIUATES HSI REQUESTS HE COMES IN WITH IS ASSEROIVELY BY PERSUSSIONA ND NOT ANY AGGRESSION ( OBSEWRVED ELSHERE) December 12th, 2010 8:29 amSorry, fail. Obama shows no qualms about expressing anger publicly at progressives. I WOULD NOT ASSUME ALL THAT FAST. IT SI A SIGN OF WEEKNESS, OVERALL. He's done so on several occasions, most recently re: the tax "deal." Recommend Recommended by 21 Readers 219.Gussini Virginia December 12th, 2010 8:29 amExcellent essay, Mr. Reed, and topical as well. I have been arguing with fellow progressives in defense of Obama's tactical moves lately. I point out the recent exit poll numbers and opine that Obama is a patient man working hard to find a position from which to govern effectively. Lines in the sand are a provocation and a waste of precious time. Taking a stand is too often to pursue a will-o-the-wisp through a swamp, at night. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "things are what they are". I appreciate Obama's deliberation, especially when the televised portion of the fourth estate seems to be melting into hysteria. When you lose your cool, you lose the game. Recommend Recommended by 6 Readers 222.whit whitley richmond, va IS THIS A MATTER OF DEGREE? WE AGGRED SOMEHOW, TAHT IT WA SO ;K FOR THE PRESIDENT TO TAKE THE STRONG STAND, AND THAT IT HAS A CONSEQUENCE. WE WERE NOT ALL THAT CLEAR THAT AGGRESSION IS NOT NECESSARY PART OF THE ASSERIVE BEHAVIOR. WE DID NOIT STATE YET WHEN VERBAL TONING UP IS WORKING WELL. ( I WAS TRYING TO CONVERGE MORE THAN GETS DIVERGED HERE TO ARRIVE TO POINT IN THE LEADING QUESTION OFV THIS THREAD; WISHFULLY,I WOUDL WANT TO GET TEH SAME IN LESS WORDS) REAGARDLESS, HOW HARD IT IS TO GROUND THE DISCUSSION WHEN NO ACTUAL REAL TIME MEETING EXISTS IN THE INTERNET , I ILLUSTRATED THE PROBLEM WITH NOISE MAKERS. |
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